EP15: How We Found Saddam Hussein - The Interrogation Method

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you sit down with the driver you've

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never met him before

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how do you even start it out told him

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very clearly

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i know you're the driver you got to take

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me obviously he's like

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ah eric ever since you guys invaded i've

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been out of a job so

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it took me a while right six hours six

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hours

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wow and he looks and he goes yep i'm the

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driver he said eric here's the deal

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i drop the bodyguard off of one of five

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safe houses into creed every single

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night

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he'll be at one of these five safe

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houses tonight

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got all five locations told bam bam bam

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bam says well you know we're hitting

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them all simultaneously

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hit all five wow no bodyguard

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oh at this point bam bam the team

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brought me back from all five houses

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all prisoners to our house i could do

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the interrogations quick now it doesn't

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take me hours

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david now let's take just minutes and

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minutes so that's going

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those six hours what do you do small

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talk oh i mean

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what do you do

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let's think about first of all a

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prisoner

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their their number one job is plausible

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deniability so i've got

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the the driver first trying to be

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plausible deniability once i

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kind of check made him on that then he

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says okay i was scared i

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lied to you now i've got to catch him

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insults

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then i've got to cut a deal with him and

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say you know what if you really are

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innocent um

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you're not gonna lie to me and he goes

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you know from this point on i won't

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so i've got to make this ch this this

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game put some stakes on it

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then i've got to capture him in another

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lie reveal it and him go

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shoot you caught me now what and then

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i've got to get him to measure

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giving up his boss the bodyguard

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or this guy interrogator smarter than me

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and can put me away forever

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i've got to get him to balance that then

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we've got to navigate through

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when i give him up how's eric maddox

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going to protect my identity

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so i've got to navigate through it then

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i've got to get the locations

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you ever tried to map track a prison or

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any rock there's no go over this hill

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it's like

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flat saying this is before we'd been

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there a long time so we didn't have this

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whole thing digitized out

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right right i mean all these then i've

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got to get the locations then i've got

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got to talk to commander and bambam says

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i want all five

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now i've got to get him for a pre for a

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recon i mean it's not like

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you don't have to recon them so now i've

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got i mean all this stuff takes place

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this is a

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busy six hours you're gonna send that

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delta force team you're not gonna give

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him an address

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right you're going to take a prisoner

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who's not trusted out there

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and these guys these american soldiers

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have to dress up

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in arab garb low viz right

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all that's got to take place like

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getting exhausted just thinking about it

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aren't you right it's like that's a

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full-on operation that's a full

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day and there are no other sources of

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intelligence

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there are no cell phones we're not

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tracking cell phones there's not high

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level imagery right there we're not

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collaborate collaborating

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information intel it's a single source

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prisoner intelligence to drive an

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operation and what year was this

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2003 2003 yes wow

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yep so six safe houses

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five i'm sorry five you thought the

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bodyguard was gonna be at least one of

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them

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peanuts empty squirrels ah there weren't

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squirrels

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there were people okay just not people

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not the person we were looking for

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so the saga continues he brings them all

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back to me

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the team does how many people is 40

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from all five safe houses yes wow and

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before you

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i think i know you said six hours to

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gather the intel was this

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from gathering the intel to hitting

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these targets within the same

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26 hours 36 hours yeah so this is these

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are i mean and this is a testament to

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the special operations community i mean

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including yourself to gather this intel

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plan the raid close target

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reconnaissance if they're going to do it

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hit the house and come off and pull that

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all off that's not

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exactly the it's just a testament a

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testament to the community

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it's awesome yeah but it's also to

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understand to put it in perspective

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you're less than three kilometers from

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any target sure i mean you're

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you're right there right so this is boom

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boom boom boom yeah and this is what

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these guys do they kick indoors and they

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they take down objectives really well

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really fast

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i've seen it first answer so you five

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five uh five safe houses or five

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houses you pull off 40 people off the

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these objective

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objectives they brought him back to us

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to me

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i interrogated him and quickly i could

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get him to go yep

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running a safe house eric he left you

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guys are close

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you scared him to this town of samara

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another prisoner says yes

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in samara he has a senior commander

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and i'll take you to the house so i went

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to bam and i was like

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hey five good houses good job we

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actually pushed him to this house

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and i said i'll promise he'll be there

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don't ever promise but it's that i get

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it

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so he was scared off prior to these

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raids i mean he kind of knew felt

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hey the americans are on to me and he

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just kept i mean we're

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we're walking right the chain right we

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just got his driver he

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probably goes shoot they got my driver

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i'm not staying at these safe houses

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right

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let me go to samara and then one of the

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prisoners said his head guy in samara is

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this person that lives at this house wow

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we go to that house the next night

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did you get and you know all these 40

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uh prisoners off the objective they're

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not talking to each other obviously so

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are you playing kind of double source

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like person a said this

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i'm going to tell person c get that

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intel is it is it's like a chess match

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here

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so it is it's a lot of that but well so

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what it is

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over the five months i've got a small

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team uh at that time it was seven

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prisoners

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that are fully on board got it and i

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have them

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in the waiting room if i need to you

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know what they call

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jerry springer and bring one of them out

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to reveal and talk to a prisoner i can

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oh wow

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my driver was the go-to guy

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the driver would come out let me talk to

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him

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wow and they would wow what you're with

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them

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right oh my goodness so it was

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anything i can do to help influence them

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to gain cooperation and i had to do it

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fast

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wow okay so let's keep going down this

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path

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we got intel the bodyguard's going to be

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in samara at this house

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raid the house and how long after that

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raid was the raid on the five

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24 hours 24 hours later one night later

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right wow raid the house nada

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jeez but the younger brother

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of the subcommander in samara

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was at the house so the bodyguard wasn't

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the bodyguard was supposed to be at his

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subcommander's house in samara

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but the younger brother that's of that

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subcommander was at that house

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it was the right house and we got a

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younger brother

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younger brother on the target

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it's like hey i'm not getting arrested

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i'm getting married this weekend you

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cannot arrest me

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wow i'll take you he's like muhammad

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ibrahim

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actually rented a house one block from

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where you captured me

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he's there right now muhammad ibrahimo

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is the bodyguard it's the bodyguard

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that's our guy so we're after muhammad

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ibrahim he's the body immediately flex

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target

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to the right right then and there right

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then and there to the bodyguard

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uh rental house wow

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bodyguard was not there jeez but his 20

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year old son was

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huh so at this point bam bam brings me

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back the boys like

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eric we're tapped i talked to the boy

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he says my dad was here two hours before

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you capture me

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the boy says his dad the bodyguard the

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one we're looking for

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was at the house we raided two hours

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before we got jeez

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and bam bam said do you have anything

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i'm like

0:08:16.240,0:08:22.479
he was there i we just missed him

0:08:20.639,0:08:24.479
bambin says well your flight you're

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leaving to crete

0:08:24.479,0:08:29.120
your tour's up you're going back to

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baghdad

0:08:29.120,0:08:32.959
the day after tomorrow two redeploy

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redeploy tours up

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wow nobody thinks saddam's into crete i

0:08:35.519,0:08:37.680
mean

0:08:38.839,0:08:43.919
nobody

0:08:40.159,0:08:45.760
weeks into my this deployment so it's a

0:08:43.919,0:08:49.040
six month deployment for me

0:08:45.760,0:08:50.080
six weeks into it the one cia guy that's

0:08:49.040,0:08:53.279
living with

0:08:50.080,0:08:55.839
this team gets shot

0:08:53.279,0:08:57.920
right shot in the stomach he had to

0:08:55.839,0:09:00.640
medevac to germany

0:08:57.920,0:09:03.279
david they didn't replace him they had

0:09:00.640,0:09:05.200
50 case officers in country

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and they couldn't give one replacement

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to the town of tikrit saddam's hometown

0:09:07.760,0:09:12.080
because they didn't think

0:09:08.720,0:09:13.120
anybody was there like he fled fled

0:09:12.080,0:09:14.640
like he left the cree you're saying

0:09:13.120,0:09:15.600
nobody thought saddam was in his why

0:09:14.640,0:09:17.360
would he stay there

0:09:15.600,0:09:19.120
why would anybody stay there it was this

0:09:17.360,0:09:20.480
little town you could hide in the

0:09:19.120,0:09:22.320
millions of baghdad

0:09:20.480,0:09:24.240
you could go to syria why do you think

0:09:22.320,0:09:25.279
they did stay there they felt safe they

0:09:24.240,0:09:26.880
had people to hide the

0:09:25.279,0:09:28.480
cover for them when you say they who do

0:09:26.880,0:09:29.519
you mean well saddam and if you thought

0:09:28.480,0:09:30.320
nobody was there i mean why would the

0:09:29.519,0:09:32.959
people that did so

0:09:30.320,0:09:34.480
i don't know if you remember but in 2003

0:09:32.959,0:09:35.040
the whole focus was on that deck of

0:09:34.480,0:09:37.519
cards

0:09:35.040,0:09:38.399
right right if you weren't on that deck

0:09:37.519,0:09:40.560
of cards

0:09:38.399,0:09:42.800
you were a nobody there was not one

0:09:40.560,0:09:44.560
bodyguard on that deck of cards

0:09:42.800,0:09:46.480
there was not one individual on my link

0:09:44.560,0:09:49.839
diagram on that deck of cards

0:09:46.480,0:09:50.320
that deck of cards was regime officials

0:09:49.839,0:09:53.040
correct

0:09:50.320,0:09:54.880
my entire link diagram was bodyguards

0:09:53.040,0:09:56.240
friends family relatives not a single

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person on a deck card

0:09:56.240,0:10:00.000
so i'd spent five months and they're

0:09:57.519,0:10:02.320
like eric you all haven't found a single

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person on the deck of cards

0:10:02.320,0:10:06.560
we don't think saddam's here you haven't

0:10:04.399,0:10:08.880
found anybody

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he's not here so it's my tour's running

0:10:08.880,0:10:12.720
out for me to go

0:10:09.920,0:10:14.160
i think he's here like yeah man we got

0:10:12.720,0:10:15.680
you

0:10:14.160,0:10:18.480
you're fired up man you're doing a good

0:10:15.680,0:10:20.240
job i'm on the edge of my seat so you

0:10:18.480,0:10:21.680
after the five you hit the house where

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you think he's gonna be in samara you

0:10:21.680,0:10:26.079
catch his kid

0:10:22.959,0:10:27.440
the bodyguard's kid no we caught the sub

0:10:26.079,0:10:29.360
commander oh the supper i'm sorry the

0:10:27.440,0:10:31.920
sub commander's little brother the flex

0:10:29.360,0:10:33.360
target to the rental house of the

0:10:31.920,0:10:34.800
bodyguard i apologize where we caught

0:10:33.360,0:10:37.600
the son of the bodyguard

0:10:34.800,0:10:38.640
wow okay and then what happened next so

0:10:37.600,0:10:41.200
i've got

0:10:38.640,0:10:42.640
one night right i'm you're going home

0:10:41.200,0:10:43.760
i'm well i'm going back to baghdad and

0:10:42.640,0:10:47.040
then redeploy

0:10:43.760,0:10:47.760
okay so start talking to the son of the

0:10:47.040,0:10:50.959
bodyguard

0:10:47.760,0:10:51.279
son of the bodyguard and he says eric he

0:10:50.959,0:10:53.760
was

0:10:51.279,0:10:55.120
my dad was here two hours ago he left

0:10:53.760,0:10:58.800
how would i know

0:10:55.120,0:11:01.279
right but we connect i mean

0:10:58.800,0:11:03.600
david this is all about connection this

0:11:01.279,0:11:07.040
turned into a full-blown connection like

0:11:03.600,0:11:08.000
this wow 20-year-old boy was laying on

0:11:07.040,0:11:10.160
the couch

0:11:08.000,0:11:12.240
crying telling me about how his dad

0:11:10.160,0:11:15.600
doesn't respect him as a man

0:11:12.240,0:11:17.839
like it's it's like a counseling session

0:11:15.600,0:11:19.600
and he starts talking he goes yeah my

0:11:17.839,0:11:21.120
dad doesn't respect me if he's a man

0:11:19.600,0:11:23.600
he goes i wish we could do some of the

0:11:21.120,0:11:25.680
things we used to do when i was a kid

0:11:23.600,0:11:27.200
i was like yeah what you guys used to do

0:11:25.680,0:11:29.200
he goes well we used to go fishing

0:11:27.200,0:11:32.000
she didn't take me fishing anymore i'm

0:11:29.200,0:11:34.480
like your dad's in the middle of a war

0:11:32.000,0:11:35.519
you might want to cut him some slack and

0:11:34.480,0:11:37.839
the boy said

0:11:35.519,0:11:38.560
no they still go fishing he just doesn't

0:11:37.839,0:11:41.440
take me

0:11:38.560,0:11:42.640
and at that point i remember when the

0:11:41.440,0:11:44.720
early interrogations

0:11:42.640,0:11:46.480
that we did we captured saddam hussein's

0:11:44.720,0:11:48.240
cook

0:11:46.480,0:11:49.920
guy cooked every meal for saddam hussein

0:11:48.240,0:11:51.680
for eight straight years and the cook

0:11:49.920,0:11:52.480
he's a cook he's wide open he did not

0:11:51.680,0:11:55.279
care he said

0:11:52.480,0:11:57.360
listen saddam really just loves this one

0:11:55.279,0:12:00.480
dish it's called moz goof

0:11:57.360,0:12:01.920
it's a fish dish chef said i make the

0:12:00.480,0:12:05.040
best moz goof in the world

0:12:01.920,0:12:06.399
i'm saddam hussein's cook and the boy

0:12:05.040,0:12:08.079
said yeah they still go fishing i said

0:12:06.399,0:12:10.079
where did they go fishing

0:12:08.079,0:12:12.240
he said along the tigris river i said

0:12:10.079,0:12:15.360
but where the boy said

0:12:12.240,0:12:17.040
eric they just built this fish pond next

0:12:15.360,0:12:20.560
to the river

0:12:17.040,0:12:22.320
they fish next to the pond wow and i'm

0:12:20.560,0:12:24.399
like why would you build a fish pond

0:12:22.320,0:12:26.079
during the middle of a war

0:12:24.399,0:12:28.160
unless you need to have this the pond

0:12:26.079,0:12:30.480
stocked because you couldn't go to the

0:12:28.160,0:12:32.720
market and get fish first time

0:12:30.480,0:12:33.680
so i went and told bam bam i'm like they

0:12:32.720,0:12:35.440
built a fish pond

0:12:33.680,0:12:37.440
i'm telling you i promise they'll be

0:12:35.440,0:12:39.200
there

0:12:37.440,0:12:41.920
and he's like he's i've been hearing

0:12:39.200,0:12:44.079
this for six months eric i know

0:12:41.920,0:12:45.040
well i wasn't promising until the end

0:12:44.079,0:12:47.120
right

0:12:45.040,0:12:48.639
and he said it's our last night he goes

0:12:47.120,0:12:50.560
if you want to hit a fish pawn

0:12:48.639,0:12:53.200
he needs to be there and i said bam bam

0:12:50.560,0:12:55.120
i'm telling i promise he'll be there

0:12:53.200,0:12:56.720
so that night bam bam and the team

0:12:55.120,0:12:59.360
raided the fish pond

0:12:56.720,0:12:59.839
because they had built a shack next to

0:12:59.360,0:13:02.480
the pawn

0:12:59.839,0:13:03.760
little probably about the size of this

0:13:02.480,0:13:06.880
right

0:13:03.760,0:13:09.040
go in bam bam's like we got two guys

0:13:06.880,0:13:11.040
20 minutes later he's like it's nothing

0:13:09.040,0:13:13.279
he said eric it's not the bodyguard

0:13:11.040,0:13:14.959
it's not saddam it's two fishermen he

0:13:13.279,0:13:16.720
said your helicopter's coming in

0:13:14.959,0:13:18.240
he goes bringing all the prisoners that

0:13:16.720,0:13:20.079
were living with us in the house he goes

0:13:18.240,0:13:22.240
get all the prisoners down the hilo pad

0:13:20.079,0:13:23.200
they pulled they they flew in a chinook

0:13:22.240,0:13:25.519
helicopter

0:13:23.200,0:13:27.279
bam bam brought me the two fishermen and

0:13:25.519,0:13:28.480
he said you're going back to baghdad he

0:13:27.279,0:13:29.120
said you won't leave for a couple of

0:13:28.480,0:13:30.880
days

0:13:29.120,0:13:32.320
don't quit he goes take all these

0:13:30.880,0:13:35.120
prisoners get the next target

0:13:32.320,0:13:36.720
wow so i go to baghdad i see all the

0:13:35.120,0:13:37.360
soldiers the bearded soldiers i hadn't

0:13:36.720,0:13:40.880
seen

0:13:37.360,0:13:42.639
in five and a half months and they said

0:13:40.880,0:13:43.680
all right your flight's leaving in three

0:13:42.639,0:13:45.920
days

0:13:43.680,0:13:47.040
so i brought in the fishermen started to

0:13:45.920,0:13:48.720
interrogate them

0:13:47.040,0:13:50.480
went back and forth and one of the

0:13:48.720,0:13:51.120
fishermen broke took me 11 and a half

0:13:50.480,0:13:53.600
hours

0:13:51.120,0:13:54.160
wow 11 hours fisherman breaks and says

0:13:53.600,0:13:56.959
eric

0:13:54.160,0:13:59.120
i'm the distant cousin of muhammad

0:13:56.959,0:14:00.880
ibrahim the bodyguard

0:13:59.120,0:14:02.320
wow he said i catch fish out of the

0:14:00.880,0:14:03.519
river i put it in the pond i said

0:14:02.320,0:14:05.440
where'd he go he said

0:14:03.519,0:14:07.680
a couple of days ago he came and he got

0:14:05.440,0:14:09.440
our address of our mutual aunt and uncle

0:14:07.680,0:14:10.399
in baghdad he said i think they're at

0:14:09.440,0:14:13.199
that house in

0:14:10.399,0:14:14.959
baghdad so i got the location called the

0:14:13.199,0:14:17.040
bambam of baghdad

0:14:14.959,0:14:18.639
said i need you to do this raid he's

0:14:17.040,0:14:20.160
like yeah whatever

0:14:18.639,0:14:21.760
put it on the list i'll put it on the

0:14:20.160,0:14:23.839
list put it we'll get to it

0:14:21.760,0:14:25.040
i said what does that mean he said eric

0:14:23.839,0:14:27.839
saddam's

0:14:25.040,0:14:29.279
not to crete and he wasn't into creed he

0:14:27.839,0:14:30.000
sure didn't come from tikrit to go to

0:14:29.279,0:14:31.920
baghdad

0:14:30.000,0:14:33.920
i'll put it on the list that's all i

0:14:31.920,0:14:34.399
heard i'm told my flight leaves in three

0:14:33.920,0:14:36.240
days

0:14:34.399,0:14:38.720
days come and went leaving the country

0:14:36.240,0:14:40.240
december 13 2003 at eight o'clock in the

0:14:38.720,0:14:42.560
morning

0:14:40.240,0:14:43.760
at one o'clock in the morning the bambam

0:14:42.560,0:14:45.360
of baghdad

0:14:43.760,0:14:48.240
calls back to the prisons like we had a

0:14:45.360,0:14:51.519
slow night we did your raid

0:14:48.240,0:14:52.480
nothing wasn't the bodyguard wasn't

0:14:51.519,0:14:54.959
saddam

0:14:52.480,0:14:56.240
we can bring you in the prisoners said

0:14:54.959,0:14:58.240
yeah bring him in

0:14:56.240,0:15:00.480
brought in the prisoners brought me the

0:14:58.240,0:15:02.800
guy they said owned the house in baghdad

0:15:00.480,0:15:04.240
sat him down started talking to him

0:15:02.800,0:15:08.480
connected with him

0:15:04.240,0:15:11.680
realized this guy is not from baghdad

0:15:08.480,0:15:12.639
interesting guys from tikrit guy's in

0:15:11.680,0:15:15.199
the link diagram

0:15:12.639,0:15:17.199
he's the deputy of my bodyguard like on

0:15:15.199,0:15:18.800
my whole link diagram he's the number

0:15:17.199,0:15:19.760
two guy and you got you had his place

0:15:18.800,0:15:22.480
right there you knew

0:15:19.760,0:15:24.320
he existed he his name was muhammad also

0:15:22.480,0:15:26.320
he was the other muhammad he was the

0:15:24.320,0:15:27.040
muhammad deputy of muhammad ibrahim the

0:15:26.320,0:15:28.720
body right

0:15:27.040,0:15:30.240
so you got the number two in charge of

0:15:28.720,0:15:31.440
right under the bodyguard i mean he's

0:15:30.240,0:15:34.800
right there and i'm like

0:15:31.440,0:15:38.320
this is not coincidental wow right so

0:15:34.800,0:15:40.959
i told him i said i need you to

0:15:38.320,0:15:41.920
take me to him right in my mind i'm

0:15:40.959,0:15:43.600
thinking

0:15:41.920,0:15:45.360
and you have how many days left in

0:15:43.600,0:15:48.320
country hours how many

0:15:45.360,0:15:49.839
i have four hours four hours left on a

0:15:48.320,0:15:52.160
six month tour

0:15:49.839,0:15:53.199
six month tour the past six months of

0:15:52.160,0:15:56.000
your life

0:15:53.199,0:15:57.920
was dedicated to getting hundreds of

0:15:56.000,0:16:00.000
people to trust you

0:15:57.920,0:16:01.040
gathering all this intelligence to go

0:16:00.000,0:16:02.880
after

0:16:01.040,0:16:05.040
the bodyguard who knows where saddam

0:16:02.880,0:16:05.839
hussein is you got four hours left and

0:16:05.040,0:16:07.600
you find

0:16:05.839,0:16:09.680
the guy right under the bodyguard that's

0:16:07.600,0:16:11.680
correct wow

0:16:09.680,0:16:13.279
okay go on i'm on the edge of my chair

0:16:11.680,0:16:16.320
so

0:16:13.279,0:16:18.000
i told him i'm like where is he right

0:16:16.320,0:16:19.199
you got to take me you got to take me

0:16:18.000,0:16:21.839
now

0:16:19.199,0:16:23.600
and the deputy the guy underneath the

0:16:21.839,0:16:26.800
bodyguard's like

0:16:23.600,0:16:30.480
eric when y'all came

0:16:26.800,0:16:34.000
and captured me last night at that house

0:16:30.480,0:16:34.839
he said the bodyguard was in the bed

0:16:34.000,0:16:38.320
next to me

0:16:34.839,0:16:41.600
oh no

0:16:38.320,0:16:45.360
they don't miss people yeah that's sad

0:16:41.600,0:16:48.000
so i'm like did they get him and they

0:16:45.360,0:16:51.199
didn't know it

0:16:48.000,0:16:52.480
so i'm like this is dealt this is the

0:16:51.199,0:16:54.240
baghdad team

0:16:52.480,0:16:55.680
they don't know what they're looking for

0:16:54.240,0:16:57.600
maybe muhammad you know like

0:16:55.680,0:16:59.360
maybe they got him so i told the guards

0:16:57.600,0:17:00.880
i said bring me any prisoner from any

0:16:59.360,0:17:02.399
raids last night they brought him in

0:17:00.880,0:17:04.000
they're just four prisoners sitting on

0:17:02.399,0:17:05.760
the ground hoods over their head

0:17:04.000,0:17:07.360
handcuffs behind their back

0:17:05.760,0:17:08.799
we did not have a picture of muhammad

0:17:07.360,0:17:09.600
ibrahim but i knew exactly was supposed

0:17:08.799,0:17:12.880
to look like

0:17:09.600,0:17:15.360
my bodyguard was supposed to have a chin

0:17:12.880,0:17:16.559
like john travolta yeah right start

0:17:15.360,0:17:19.039
lifting up hoods

0:17:16.559,0:17:19.839
last hood lifted it up before i even got

0:17:19.039,0:17:23.199
the hood off

0:17:19.839,0:17:25.839
i saw the chin and i'm like wow

0:17:23.199,0:17:27.679
oh my gosh that's muhammad ibrahim

0:17:25.839,0:17:30.080
that's what i said to him i just said

0:17:27.679,0:17:31.280
hey muhammad nice to meet you oh he said

0:17:30.080,0:17:34.960
i was shocked right

0:17:31.280,0:17:37.520
and i was like you're muhammad ibrahim

0:17:34.960,0:17:39.360
man i've been waiting to meet you and he

0:17:37.520,0:17:42.480
looks at me in perfect english he goes

0:17:39.360,0:17:42.799
you're the interrogator in tikrit he

0:17:42.480,0:17:44.960
said

0:17:42.799,0:17:46.480
i've been waiting to meet you too damn

0:17:44.960,0:17:49.440
right now

0:17:46.480,0:17:49.840
i've got two and a half hours brought

0:17:49.440,0:17:52.720
him in

0:17:49.840,0:17:54.160
set him down and told myself you got to

0:17:52.720,0:17:56.640
connect with him got to give him

0:17:54.160,0:17:58.320
you know don't don't overthink it don't

0:17:56.640,0:18:00.640
rush it just listen to him

0:17:58.320,0:18:02.000
just took off the lid and i said the

0:18:00.640,0:18:04.640
only thing we could talk about

0:18:02.000,0:18:06.480
is the exact location of saddam right i

0:18:04.640,0:18:08.000
didn't know what he was going to say

0:18:06.480,0:18:09.840
but i knew wherever he wherever he

0:18:08.000,0:18:14.320
started would tell me where to go

0:18:09.840,0:18:17.200
hmm he said you give me too much credit

0:18:14.320,0:18:18.000
he said the president i don't know where

0:18:17.200,0:18:19.679
he is

0:18:18.000,0:18:21.679
and i knew i knew immediately he knew he

0:18:19.679,0:18:24.640
was lying no i didn't care

0:18:21.679,0:18:25.840
everybody lies like i don't this isn't a

0:18:24.640,0:18:26.559
lie detector so what did you know when

0:18:25.840,0:18:29.679
you say i knew what

0:18:26.559,0:18:33.280
you what did you know that his

0:18:29.679,0:18:36.320
perception his whole world was why

0:18:33.280,0:18:37.600
me you give me too much credit he was

0:18:36.320,0:18:39.600
not on the deck of cards

0:18:37.600,0:18:41.600
saddam had hundreds of bodyguards he had

0:18:39.600,0:18:42.799
30 inner circle bodyguards why did he

0:18:41.600,0:18:44.799
pick this guy

0:18:42.799,0:18:46.480
right and he goes you give me too much

0:18:44.799,0:18:49.360
credit and i just very clearly i said

0:18:46.480,0:18:49.760
i i didn't give you any credit no i said

0:18:49.360,0:18:51.679
i

0:18:49.760,0:18:52.960
i didn't know who you were before i came

0:18:51.679,0:18:54.720
to this country

0:18:52.960,0:18:56.640
i said but the 300 prisoners i've

0:18:54.720,0:18:57.520
interrogated the 40 of your family

0:18:56.640,0:19:00.559
members

0:18:57.520,0:19:02.480
that i have in this prison right now

0:19:00.559,0:19:04.400
they give you credit i said they gave

0:19:02.480,0:19:07.840
you credit for ruining

0:19:04.400,0:19:09.120
their lives wow and he kind of rolls his

0:19:07.840,0:19:10.320
eyes it's a punch in the gut

0:19:09.120,0:19:12.400
he went rolling his eyes at me he's

0:19:10.320,0:19:15.520
rolling his eyes right

0:19:12.400,0:19:17.039
like if you knew muhammad ibrahim which

0:19:15.520,0:19:18.480
i didn't know him personally but i knew

0:19:17.039,0:19:20.480
exactly who he was

0:19:18.480,0:19:21.600
saddam had 30 inner circle bodyguards he

0:19:20.480,0:19:23.679
could have picked anybody

0:19:21.600,0:19:25.120
why'd he pick this guy all of saddam's

0:19:23.679,0:19:27.200
bodyguards they were

0:19:25.120,0:19:29.360
they were not smart but they used the

0:19:27.200,0:19:31.200
power of being saddam's bodyguards

0:19:29.360,0:19:32.480
against the local populace to their own

0:19:31.200,0:19:34.720
personal advantage

0:19:32.480,0:19:36.160
except muhammad ibrahim he was the

0:19:34.720,0:19:38.160
nicest fun-loving

0:19:36.160,0:19:39.600
whiskey drinking domino player think of

0:19:38.160,0:19:42.400
what saddam hussein did

0:19:39.600,0:19:42.960
saddam hussein saw this deck of cards as

0:19:42.400,0:19:46.160
as

0:19:42.960,0:19:47.760
as beacons to him so he makes

0:19:46.160,0:19:49.200
everybody on the deck of cards leave his

0:19:47.760,0:19:51.760
hometown

0:19:49.200,0:19:53.039
he also knew that all the locals hated

0:19:51.760,0:19:55.919
the bodyguards

0:19:53.039,0:19:57.360
he made all them go away except for

0:19:55.919,0:20:00.320
muhammad ibrahim he said

0:19:57.360,0:20:01.919
this one guy can know where i am but

0:20:00.320,0:20:03.280
nobody's going to turn in this guy he

0:20:01.919,0:20:06.320
doesn't have any enemies

0:20:03.280,0:20:09.440
everybody loves him they won't turn him

0:20:06.320,0:20:11.039
into the americans that was saddam's

0:20:09.440,0:20:13.840
strategy

0:20:11.039,0:20:15.520
the civilians in the town would not turn

0:20:13.840,0:20:17.120
that one bodyguard

0:20:15.520,0:20:18.400
over would not kind of flip on him

0:20:17.120,0:20:19.120
because he was loved by the people

0:20:18.400,0:20:20.960
that's right

0:20:19.120,0:20:22.720
wow and then that's why he rolled his

0:20:20.960,0:20:23.919
eyes when you said i got 40 people in

0:20:22.720,0:20:26.159
here that says you're the man

0:20:23.919,0:20:27.520
no who give you credit you credit for

0:20:26.159,0:20:29.679
ruining their lives

0:20:27.520,0:20:30.960
wow see i don't need to make this about

0:20:29.679,0:20:32.880
can you do it

0:20:30.960,0:20:34.080
i need to make this about look what's

0:20:32.880,0:20:35.039
happening to you it's think about

0:20:34.080,0:20:36.880
interrogations

0:20:35.039,0:20:38.159
you can't make it about what they should

0:20:36.880,0:20:40.000
do for you

0:20:38.159,0:20:41.919
what they need to do for you it's got to

0:20:40.000,0:20:43.840
be about them

0:20:41.919,0:20:45.600
did he know where saddam was well i

0:20:43.840,0:20:46.480
didn't know so what happened then so you

0:20:45.600,0:20:49.679
leave you got hours

0:20:46.480,0:20:50.080
oh no no no no so as my clock's ticking

0:20:49.679,0:20:51.600
out

0:20:50.080,0:20:54.400
like we're going back and forth and like

0:20:51.600,0:20:57.840
my my final thing he had a daughter

0:20:54.400,0:20:59.760
uh that had a baby that his wife

0:20:57.840,0:21:01.039
and was hiding into crete and i said

0:20:59.760,0:21:02.960
your wife and the baby have been living

0:21:01.039,0:21:03.520
here and he was shocked i didn't know

0:21:02.960,0:21:05.600
and i said

0:21:03.520,0:21:06.960
i never went to that house i would never

0:21:05.600,0:21:08.240
send the soldiers to that house i would

0:21:06.960,0:21:09.360
never hurt that baby

0:21:08.240,0:21:11.440
i said where else are you going to go to

0:21:09.360,0:21:14.159
find someone than their spouse

0:21:11.440,0:21:15.919
i said what will he do for you now what

0:21:14.159,0:21:18.080
will he do for your baby i've got him

0:21:15.919,0:21:19.679
crying right like he's really broke down

0:21:18.080,0:21:21.120
and the time's running out the

0:21:19.679,0:21:22.320
interrogator's like dude you got to go

0:21:21.120,0:21:24.000
catch a plane

0:21:22.320,0:21:25.840
so i take him to his cell i'm like i

0:21:24.000,0:21:27.200
need it i need it now and he's like

0:21:25.840,0:21:28.400
i don't know if i should do it like he

0:21:27.200,0:21:30.080
didn't say he couldn't do it he said i

0:21:28.400,0:21:31.440
don't know if i should do it i'm like i

0:21:30.080,0:21:33.039
really think you should

0:21:31.440,0:21:35.679
and should mean tell you where saddam is

0:21:33.039,0:21:36.000
yes okay and he said i can't i said all

0:21:35.679,0:21:38.159
right

0:21:36.000,0:21:39.840
i'm leaving i'm not joking this is not a

0:21:38.159,0:21:42.480
joke

0:21:39.840,0:21:43.280
you spent six months you finally got the

0:21:42.480,0:21:46.080
guy you have an

0:21:43.280,0:21:48.640
hour left before your flight leaves it's

0:21:46.080,0:21:50.320
literally down to the hour

0:21:48.640,0:21:51.840
and this guy's i don't know if i should

0:21:50.320,0:21:55.520
that's insane

0:21:51.840,0:21:57.679
insane yeah all right so go on sorry

0:21:55.520,0:21:59.440
so i told him i said you're going to be

0:21:57.679,0:22:01.039
in here you're going to change your mind

0:21:59.440,0:22:03.120
i said i know how the story ends i said

0:22:01.039,0:22:05.200
i'm not kidding i ran out of time

0:22:03.120,0:22:06.480
i said i'm going to be gone when you

0:22:05.200,0:22:07.600
change your mind and you're going to

0:22:06.480,0:22:09.919
take us to saddam

0:22:07.600,0:22:11.280
i will be gone i said nobody here thinks

0:22:09.919,0:22:13.120
you can do it

0:22:11.280,0:22:15.200
when you do it you got to go crazy i

0:22:13.120,0:22:18.480
said make them come talk to you

0:22:15.200,0:22:19.840
yell scream make them come talk to you

0:22:18.480,0:22:21.760
no one's ever going to talk to you again

0:22:19.840,0:22:24.080
you're going to die and hear an old man

0:22:21.760,0:22:25.200
wow so i laughed right i put him in the

0:22:24.080,0:22:27.120
cell i left

0:22:25.200,0:22:29.360
i had i didn't pack my bags packed my

0:22:27.120,0:22:29.919
bags and senior interrogator comes pick

0:22:29.360,0:22:32.640
me up

0:22:29.919,0:22:34.159
driving to the tarmac right and when j

0:22:32.640,0:22:36.240
you're right next to the

0:22:34.159,0:22:38.240
the plane they're driving across the

0:22:36.240,0:22:40.640
tarmac senior interrogator

0:22:38.240,0:22:41.520
says what'd you do to the prisoner i'm

0:22:40.640,0:22:44.559
like

0:22:41.520,0:22:45.679
why nothing why he goes guards are

0:22:44.559,0:22:47.440
freaking out

0:22:45.679,0:22:49.200
they think he's trying to kill himself

0:22:47.440,0:22:50.480
they said he can't stop getting from

0:22:49.200,0:22:53.360
banging his head

0:22:50.480,0:22:55.039
against the wall of his cell and i'm

0:22:53.360,0:22:58.159
like he's trying to do it

0:22:55.039,0:22:59.840
jumped out of the truck ran across went

0:22:58.159,0:23:00.880
to the prison got muhammad he bring him

0:22:59.840,0:23:02.880
out took off his head

0:23:00.880,0:23:04.159
said where is he he looks at me and he

0:23:02.880,0:23:05.840
said we got to go

0:23:04.159,0:23:07.600
we got to go right now i said don't mess

0:23:05.840,0:23:09.760
with me man where are we going

0:23:07.600,0:23:11.440
he said we're going back to tikrit he

0:23:09.760,0:23:13.120
said he's in this village called adwar

0:23:11.440,0:23:14.400
at the farmhouse with a man named kais

0:23:13.120,0:23:16.480
and they make justine

0:23:14.400,0:23:17.760
and i'm like showman he start he drew a

0:23:16.480,0:23:19.760
beautiful sketch

0:23:17.760,0:23:22.000
got the map and he goes eric we got to

0:23:19.760,0:23:23.520
go interrogators are back i said that

0:23:22.000,0:23:25.840
guy just broke

0:23:23.520,0:23:27.679
they said go get on the plane i said you

0:23:25.840,0:23:28.159
don't understand saddam hussein's into

0:23:27.679,0:23:30.080
crete

0:23:28.159,0:23:31.520
and they said you don't understand we

0:23:30.080,0:23:34.640
know he's not to crete

0:23:31.520,0:23:36.559
go get on the plane and i'm like please

0:23:34.640,0:23:39.679
call bam bam tell him

0:23:36.559,0:23:40.480
muhammad ibrahim is dying to take him to

0:23:39.679,0:23:43.440
saddam

0:23:40.480,0:23:44.640
i gave him the sketch they put me on the

0:23:43.440,0:23:47.120
truck they flew me to

0:23:44.640,0:23:48.480
they took me to that flight and i left i

0:23:47.120,0:23:51.600
left the country

0:23:48.480,0:23:51.919
and david when you're with jace hawk you

0:23:51.600,0:23:54.640
don't

0:23:51.919,0:23:55.840
go home they fly you to doha the next

0:23:54.640,0:23:58.640
morning i had to give a

0:23:55.840,0:23:59.679
top secret out briefing of my entire

0:23:58.640,0:24:02.559
tour

0:23:59.679,0:24:03.200
i've got my link diagram show up to the

0:24:02.559,0:24:05.520
building

0:24:03.200,0:24:06.240
they knocked on the door senior officer

0:24:05.520,0:24:09.120
opens up

0:24:06.240,0:24:09.440
and he said all briefings this morning

0:24:09.120,0:24:13.360
are

0:24:09.440,0:24:14.240
canceled clunk and the sergeant knocked

0:24:13.360,0:24:17.120
on the door

0:24:14.240,0:24:18.159
and he said staffs aren't maddox can't

0:24:17.120,0:24:19.840
leave the country

0:24:18.159,0:24:21.360
until he gets his briefing and the

0:24:19.840,0:24:21.760
senior officer pulled me inside and he

0:24:21.360,0:24:24.880
said

0:24:21.760,0:24:26.000
you're eric maddox i said yes he said

0:24:24.880,0:24:28.400
eric

0:24:26.000,0:24:29.360
we got him wow we got him last night he

0:24:28.400,0:24:31.679
said

0:24:29.360,0:24:34.000
your prisoner did it and i said

0:24:31.679,0:24:36.000
bodyguard did it how to go down

0:24:34.000,0:24:37.200
and he said well when you left we called

0:24:36.000,0:24:39.600
bam bam

0:24:37.200,0:24:41.039
bam bam in the team the whole team

0:24:39.600,0:24:43.279
jumped on a helicopter

0:24:41.039,0:24:44.799
picked up muhammad ibrahim the bodyguard

0:24:43.279,0:24:48.400
went to tikrit planned

0:24:44.799,0:24:50.240
executed the raid of the farmhouse

0:24:48.400,0:24:51.440
and he took him straight to the hole and

0:24:50.240,0:24:54.640
muhammad ibrahim was

0:24:51.440,0:24:57.120
on target when the raid happened bambam

0:24:54.640,0:24:57.840
yes bambam and the team raids right

0:24:57.120,0:25:00.080
right

0:24:57.840,0:25:01.679
the united states army said hey we've

0:25:00.080,0:25:03.760
been to every house in decree we've been

0:25:01.679,0:25:05.919
to this farm twice

0:25:03.760,0:25:07.279
they couldn't find saddam they go to the

0:25:05.919,0:25:08.960
bodyguard

0:25:07.279,0:25:10.880
pull him out of the truck tough called

0:25:08.960,0:25:12.640
off his handcuffs take off his hood

0:25:10.880,0:25:13.919
said where is he the bodyguard walks

0:25:12.640,0:25:14.720
them around to the back side of the

0:25:13.919,0:25:17.039
house

0:25:14.720,0:25:18.480
it's just sand and dirt and he kicks it

0:25:17.039,0:25:20.159
up with his heels

0:25:18.480,0:25:22.159
and there's a there's a rope they

0:25:20.159,0:25:25.200
realize he's kicking up a rope

0:25:22.159,0:25:27.919
they moved him aside they dug it up

0:25:25.200,0:25:29.360
rope's connected to a lid wow they look

0:25:27.919,0:25:31.600
at the bodyguard and he's not saying

0:25:29.360,0:25:34.320
anything he's just going

0:25:31.600,0:25:34.799
all right so they're drawn lift up the

0:25:34.320,0:25:36.880
lid

0:25:34.799,0:25:38.000
and there he was we all know what

0:25:36.880,0:25:39.520
happened to saddam what happened to

0:25:38.000,0:25:42.240
muhammad ibrahim after that

0:25:39.520,0:25:43.200
did he continue to cooperate how did you

0:25:42.240,0:25:46.880
guys treat him after that

0:25:43.200,0:25:48.559
so muhammad ibrahim i never promised

0:25:46.880,0:25:51.279
that he would be released he was too

0:25:48.559,0:25:51.919
volatile right but all those 40 family

0:25:51.279,0:25:54.640
members

0:25:51.919,0:25:56.000
released the next week he eventually he

0:25:54.640,0:25:58.720
was there for three years he got

0:25:56.000,0:25:59.279
released he went and got a gazillion

0:25:58.720,0:26:02.000
dollars

0:25:59.279,0:26:02.480
of saddam's in syria saddam had over

0:26:02.000,0:26:05.760
three

0:26:02.480,0:26:06.559
billion dollars in cash stored in aleppo

0:26:05.760,0:26:10.320
syria

0:26:06.559,0:26:13.360
just before the two invasion of 2003 war

0:26:10.320,0:26:15.679
you know wow when i was in

0:26:13.360,0:26:16.480
iraq the second time we captured a guy

0:26:15.679,0:26:18.559
who said he

0:26:16.480,0:26:19.679
drove some of that money over the border

0:26:18.559,0:26:24.640
no kidding

0:26:19.679,0:26:26.880
i digress did that i don't want to say

0:26:24.640,0:26:27.760
hurt but did you feel you missed out

0:26:26.880,0:26:31.600
because you spent

0:26:27.760,0:26:33.120
six months uh that's a lot of energy

0:26:31.600,0:26:34.640
that's a lot of time that that's an

0:26:33.120,0:26:36.240
emotional commitment

0:26:34.640,0:26:37.760
and then you weren't there when because

0:26:36.240,0:26:38.080
your tour ended did you feel you kind of

0:26:37.760,0:26:39.600
missed

0:26:38.080,0:26:41.200
out because you didn't you weren't there

0:26:39.600,0:26:43.440
on target when they got saddam

0:26:41.200,0:26:44.799
i mean i would have probably i would

0:26:43.440,0:26:46.880
have i don't think so

0:26:44.799,0:26:49.039
i didn't at the time i get that question

0:26:46.880,0:26:50.000
more than any other question so now i'm

0:26:49.039,0:26:53.440
like well maybe

0:26:50.000,0:26:55.520
i guess it would have been better for me

0:26:53.440,0:26:57.760
when you're dialed in you know when

0:26:55.520,0:27:00.240
you're so in

0:26:57.760,0:27:02.559
you just want to get the guy so for me

0:27:00.240,0:27:05.440
it was i did my job

0:27:02.559,0:27:06.559
bam bam he didn't need me at the target

0:27:05.440,0:27:08.240
they did their job

0:27:06.559,0:27:10.000
and you know what you did you felt that

0:27:08.240,0:27:11.600
that pride there's a sense of pride

0:27:10.000,0:27:13.760
there listen not not uh

0:27:11.600,0:27:15.919
yeah i don't make any bones about it

0:27:13.760,0:27:17.840
right people talk a lot of stuff about

0:27:15.919,0:27:19.200
what we've done and who we've done i'll

0:27:17.840,0:27:21.520
tell you exactly what i did

0:27:19.200,0:27:22.880
i tracked down saddam hussein right i

0:27:21.520,0:27:25.039
don't need to be on that raid

0:27:22.880,0:27:26.640
wow i don't even know what time it is

0:27:25.039,0:27:28.880
i'm just so so caught up in this this is

0:27:26.640,0:27:31.039
a great story so

0:27:28.880,0:27:32.799
that's how saddam hussein got captured

0:27:31.039,0:27:34.080
very briefly what did the next 10

0:27:32.799,0:27:36.399
15 years look for you because i mean

0:27:34.080,0:27:37.919
this is now 16 17 years ago when that

0:27:36.399,0:27:39.679
happened and you've had a full career

0:27:37.919,0:27:42.799
since then and just doing amazing things

0:27:39.679,0:27:44.399
so i'm immediately taken straight to the

0:27:42.799,0:27:45.200
pentagon straight to at the end

0:27:44.399,0:27:47.760
secretary of

0:27:45.200,0:27:49.200
defense donald rumsfeld's office right

0:27:47.760,0:27:50.960
secretary rumsfeld

0:27:49.200,0:27:52.480
loved how this went down he loved the

0:27:50.960,0:27:53.520
interrogations and he said

0:27:52.480,0:27:56.080
i don't want to have to borrow

0:27:53.520,0:27:56.799
interrogators who are chinese mandarin

0:27:56.080,0:27:58.480
linguists

0:27:56.799,0:28:00.399
he goes i want my own team of

0:27:58.480,0:28:03.760
interrogators instant

0:28:00.399,0:28:06.000
like the next weekend had got

0:28:03.760,0:28:08.480
received the funding for the defense

0:28:06.000,0:28:10.159
intelligence agency to have a 30-person

0:28:08.480,0:28:13.039
civilian interrogation team

0:28:10.159,0:28:13.919
and i was hired as the first one pulled

0:28:13.039,0:28:17.360
out of the army

0:28:13.919,0:28:19.679
became a gs interrogator for the dia

0:28:17.360,0:28:21.520
as a civilian interrogator over the next

0:28:19.679,0:28:24.159
10 years i ended up doing a total

0:28:21.520,0:28:25.279
of eight deployments 2 700

0:28:24.159,0:28:27.440
interrogations

0:28:25.279,0:28:29.360
and my first year my first assignment

0:28:27.440,0:28:31.279
was teach this technique

0:28:29.360,0:28:33.440
teach this empathy-based listening

0:28:31.279,0:28:35.840
interrogation technique

0:28:33.440,0:28:37.600
i'm going to tell you of interrogations

0:28:35.840,0:28:39.360
before empathy based listening technique

0:28:37.600,0:28:41.760
using the army's old techniques

0:28:39.360,0:28:44.399
prisoners break at four percent

0:28:41.760,0:28:46.399
the 30-person interrogation team and my

0:28:44.399,0:28:47.120
i ended up doing 2 700 they've done

0:28:46.399,0:28:50.399
thousands

0:28:47.120,0:28:53.679
we break prisoners at 65 wow

0:28:50.399,0:28:54.399
using this technique in 2014 i hit the

0:28:53.679,0:28:57.520
20

0:28:54.399,0:29:01.279
year mark 10 military 10 civilian

0:28:57.520,0:29:03.840
dia i got out of the government

0:29:01.279,0:29:04.960
and became a keynote speaker and trainer

0:29:03.840,0:29:08.640
of empathy

0:29:04.960,0:29:11.760
based listening to gain influence

0:29:08.640,0:29:13.440
for sales negotiations wow

0:29:11.760,0:29:15.440
so wrap this up and kind of tell me a

0:29:13.440,0:29:16.960
little bit more about this empathy based

0:29:15.440,0:29:18.080
what what what goes into it i mean i

0:29:16.960,0:29:19.760
heard a lot of the stories while you're

0:29:18.080,0:29:22.640
tracking down saddam but

0:29:19.760,0:29:24.640
outside of maybe a war zone outside of

0:29:22.640,0:29:26.799
that specific mission you were on what's

0:29:24.640,0:29:29.200
more of this empathy-based approach

0:29:26.799,0:29:31.200
so empathy-based listening is the idea

0:29:29.200,0:29:32.960
that when we talk to people

0:29:31.200,0:29:34.960
they're measuring anybody they have a

0:29:32.960,0:29:37.760
conversation with can i trust you

0:29:34.960,0:29:39.039
of what can i trust that you're more

0:29:37.760,0:29:41.440
interested in me

0:29:39.039,0:29:43.520
then you are yourself right that's what

0:29:41.440,0:29:45.039
we call the hurdle of trust

0:29:43.520,0:29:46.799
the problem is every time we're

0:29:45.039,0:29:48.240
communicating with somebody we have

0:29:46.799,0:29:50.880
psychological distractions

0:29:48.240,0:29:52.399
it lowers our listening to 25 percent we

0:29:50.880,0:29:54.960
think about our own agenda

0:29:52.399,0:29:55.919
our own goals our biases towards this

0:29:54.960,0:29:58.320
individual

0:29:55.919,0:30:01.520
right everything in our world and if we

0:29:58.320,0:30:03.919
can identify those distractions

0:30:01.520,0:30:05.600
put them behind us and then have a

0:30:03.919,0:30:08.000
single agenda

0:30:05.600,0:30:09.440
instead of our own goals a single agenda

0:30:08.000,0:30:11.039
of seeking to understand their

0:30:09.440,0:30:13.360
perspective with regards to the top

0:30:11.039,0:30:15.039
conversation at that moment time you can

0:30:13.360,0:30:16.480
catapult your listening deep into the

0:30:15.039,0:30:19.440
80s and 90s

0:30:16.480,0:30:20.720
interesting when you do that there's no

0:30:19.440,0:30:23.360
higher way

0:30:20.720,0:30:26.080
to gain immediate trust in any

0:30:23.360,0:30:28.320
relationship with a family member

0:30:26.080,0:30:29.520
with a colleague or a prisoner you just

0:30:28.320,0:30:31.120
yanked off the battlefield

0:30:29.520,0:30:32.880
why because it makes the person talking

0:30:31.120,0:30:35.440
feel welcome

0:30:32.880,0:30:36.799
feel invited feel loved let me say it

0:30:35.440,0:30:40.080
again

0:30:36.799,0:30:41.600
when people are in a relationship the

0:30:40.080,0:30:43.279
trust is not that you're going to steal

0:30:41.600,0:30:45.120
my wallet i'll make sure you're that

0:30:43.279,0:30:46.960
have that level of integrity

0:30:45.120,0:30:48.799
the partnership is if we're going to

0:30:46.960,0:30:52.399
work together

0:30:48.799,0:30:56.559
what's more important to you your goals

0:30:52.399,0:30:59.919
or mine you can't

0:30:56.559,0:31:02.559
get you can't put

0:30:59.919,0:31:04.159
somebody else ahead of yourself unless

0:31:02.559,0:31:06.640
you can remove

0:31:04.159,0:31:08.799
everything in your mind to even listen

0:31:06.640,0:31:10.880
to seek to understand what matters to

0:31:08.799,0:31:14.000
them

0:31:10.880,0:31:15.760
if you can live a life of listening to

0:31:14.000,0:31:18.000
seeking to understand

0:31:15.760,0:31:19.519
then you build just a personal culture a

0:31:18.000,0:31:22.960
professional culture

0:31:19.519,0:31:23.519
that says here what we do is figure you

0:31:22.960,0:31:26.240
out

0:31:23.519,0:31:27.600
for you and that's what everyone wants

0:31:26.240,0:31:31.039
to partner with

0:31:27.600,0:31:33.519
wow i get it in conclusion

0:31:31.039,0:31:34.080
veterans you know that's why i started

0:31:33.519,0:31:35.519
the show

0:31:34.080,0:31:37.279
we're big on the military veteran

0:31:35.519,0:31:40.640
community

0:31:37.279,0:31:42.720
what can you tell the veteran community

0:31:40.640,0:31:45.120
to specifically maybe veterans still

0:31:42.720,0:31:48.159
trying to find their path

0:31:45.120,0:31:48.880
what i would tell veterans is we can't

0:31:48.159,0:31:52.480
look at

0:31:48.880,0:31:54.640
like look at your military past and say

0:31:52.480,0:31:55.600
i'm going to make the assumption or i

0:31:54.640,0:31:58.559
have the belief

0:31:55.600,0:31:59.200
this is how i can jump into the private

0:31:58.559,0:32:01.919
sector

0:31:59.200,0:32:03.519
this is where my value is right now we

0:32:01.919,0:32:05.919
want to have that personal value

0:32:03.519,0:32:07.200
we want to have faith we want to have

0:32:05.919,0:32:09.360
that level of integrity

0:32:07.200,0:32:10.399
but when i say that transition which is

0:32:09.360,0:32:11.919
so difficult

0:32:10.399,0:32:14.000
when a veteran comes out and says how do

0:32:11.919,0:32:17.519
i jump in what job

0:32:14.000,0:32:19.480
can i do i need you to think about

0:32:17.519,0:32:20.799
what did you learn what are your

0:32:19.480,0:32:22.960
differentiators

0:32:20.799,0:32:24.320
what is the secret sauce of what you

0:32:22.960,0:32:25.760
learned in the military right

0:32:24.320,0:32:27.760
like anybody could look at me as an

0:32:25.760,0:32:28.320
interrogator and say wow you know what

0:32:27.760,0:32:31.279
you should do

0:32:28.320,0:32:33.440
is go train cops right get into security

0:32:31.279,0:32:36.559
all that stuff it's like no no

0:32:33.440,0:32:40.080
what the military taught me to do

0:32:36.559,0:32:43.120
was to gather information to build trust

0:32:40.080,0:32:45.760
to maximize influence with people

0:32:43.120,0:32:46.880
in the private sector we're talking

0:32:45.760,0:32:50.000
sales

0:32:46.880,0:32:51.600
leadership culture building right this

0:32:50.000,0:32:53.519
technique that the army taught me it's

0:32:51.600,0:32:56.480
not an army

0:32:53.519,0:32:58.320
skill set it was a military background

0:32:56.480,0:32:59.760
which taught me a skill set

0:32:58.320,0:33:01.360
which can be applied in the private

0:32:59.760,0:33:04.240
sector the other thing

0:33:01.360,0:33:05.039
that i want veterans to know and

0:33:04.240,0:33:07.039
actually people

0:33:05.039,0:33:08.799
outside who aren't veterans who are like

0:33:07.039,0:33:09.679
what do veterans bring to the table

0:33:08.799,0:33:12.320
people think you know what the

0:33:09.679,0:33:14.399
military's about it's dress right dress

0:33:12.320,0:33:16.720
wake up at six o'clock and five o'clock

0:33:14.399,0:33:19.279
in the morning and obey orders i'm like

0:33:16.720,0:33:21.679
no no no no you think there's there's a

0:33:19.279,0:33:25.840
war runs at five o'clock in the morning

0:33:21.679,0:33:28.559
i said it's about understanding

0:33:25.840,0:33:29.760
how to process information to make

0:33:28.559,0:33:32.399
decisions

0:33:29.760,0:33:33.600
to solve problems that we did not know

0:33:32.399,0:33:36.480
we were going to face

0:33:33.600,0:33:38.640
interesting yeah if you if you talk to

0:33:36.480,0:33:41.519
people in a battlefield they'll go

0:33:38.640,0:33:44.000
here's how wars work you show up and

0:33:41.519,0:33:46.080
everything's a goat rope

0:33:44.000,0:33:47.679
nothing what we expected and we got to

0:33:46.080,0:33:50.000
figure it out you're like

0:33:47.679,0:33:50.799
what like that's what it means to be in

0:33:50.000,0:33:53.519
the military

0:33:50.799,0:33:54.799
we're problem solvers we do and you have

0:33:53.519,0:33:55.840
a team of people around you that are

0:33:54.799,0:33:58.240
problem solvers

0:33:55.840,0:33:59.679
that's what we do in the military right

0:33:58.240,0:34:01.039
we are problem solving you get out and

0:33:59.679,0:34:01.600
sometimes you don't have that same team

0:34:01.039,0:34:02.880
anymore

0:34:01.600,0:34:04.399
you have to go find a new team or

0:34:02.880,0:34:05.039
develop the trust and relationships with

0:34:04.399,0:34:06.880
the new team

0:34:05.039,0:34:08.720
as well yes which is not but you have

0:34:06.880,0:34:11.200
that experience that really

0:34:08.720,0:34:13.520
put your feet to the fire no they

0:34:11.200,0:34:16.560
probably don't want you for your raw raw

0:34:13.520,0:34:20.480
lockdown military live or die

0:34:16.560,0:34:23.520
but what they do want is that mindset

0:34:20.480,0:34:25.839
to say i don't know what the solution is

0:34:23.520,0:34:26.960
but we can go figure it out let's

0:34:25.839,0:34:30.000
communicate

0:34:26.960,0:34:30.560
to build a team that that's the value of

0:34:30.000,0:34:33.040
what

0:34:30.560,0:34:34.800
veterans bring to the private sector wow

0:34:33.040,0:34:37.040
that's amazing

0:34:34.800,0:34:38.200
look this was so amazing please check

0:34:37.040,0:34:41.280
out his website

0:34:38.200,0:34:43.119
ericmatics.com am i correct m-a-d-d-o-x

0:34:41.280,0:34:44.320
dot com that's how we got connected i

0:34:43.119,0:34:46.159
just saw you online

0:34:44.320,0:34:47.839
we started hitting enough formed a

0:34:46.159,0:34:56.879
relationship thank you so much for

0:34:47.839,0:34:56.879
flying out here thanks david